BOARD OF EDUCATION OF) Case No. 72-11364

Federal Building
Baltimore, Maryland
April 13, 1973

Testimony of
Doctor Felix P. Heald


Honorable Joseph H. Young


For the Plaintiff:
George H. Cohen
Michael H. Gottesman
Darryl J. Anderson
Rob Ross Hendrickson

For the Defendant:
Robert S. Bourbon
Alan I. Baron


THE CLERK:Would you please state your full name for the record.

THE WITNESS:Felix P. Heald.



Q:Dr. Heald, what is your profession?

A:I am a pediatrician.

Q:How long have you been a pediatrician?

A:Twenty-three years.

Q:What current position do you hold?

A:Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Maryland, School of Medicine, and Director of the Division of Adolescent Medicine.

MR. BARON:I would like to offer this into evidence as Defendants’ Exhibit 15.

THE COURT:Is this the Doctor’s vitae?

MR. BARON:Yes, Your Honor.

[Thereupon, the curriculum vitae of Dr. Felix P. Heald was admitted in evidence as Defendant’s Exhibit 15.]

MR. BARON:Your Honor, it is my understanding that there is no challenge for Dr. Heald’s qualifications to testify.

MR. GOTTESMAN:That is correct, Your Honor.

THE COURT:Very well.


Q:Dr. Hea1d, are you generally familiar with the facts surrounding this particular case that is on trial here today?

A:Yes, I am.

Q:Do you recall particularly what opportunity you have had to consider the facts? What have you examined in connection with the case?

A:I have examined the documents that have been presented in the cases

Q:And have you had discussions with counsel concerning this case?

A:Yes, I have.

Q:And have you formed an opinion as to whether or not Mr. Acanfora’s presence in the eighth-grade classroom, under the particular circumstances of this case, presents any hazard to any of the children, in your opinion, in his classroom?

A:Yes, I have.

Q:I would ask you, really, at this time, to state in your own words what your conclusions are and, again, the basis for those conclusions,

A:What I would like to do, if I could, is develop very briefly what happens during adolescence from the time of the developmental point of view, because this is really the whole key in arriving, in my particular opinion. In the first plebe, adolescence is the terminal portion of human growth, and the key phenomena or characteristic of adolescence is growth and velocity. This growth and velocity involves three general areas -- physical growth, emotional growth and intellectual growth.

Particularly, physical and emotional growth appear to be rather closely related, arid physical growth is an important catalyst for normal psychological development. However, I would point out that according to the particular circumstances in any individual boy or girl that the timing and the rate at which these growths take place is highly individualized and may be modified by a whole variety of genetic, biological and psychological and social factors.

To be more specific, physical growth involves two main areas that are of key importance to the adolescent. First, there is a rather dramatic change in the size of the individual, and, secondly, there is the change, the last bodily change in the secondary, sexual characteristics. Both of these are key elements in the catalyzing normal, psychological development.

Now, another characteristic of the adolescent, in the psychological area, is the transition from their relatively close ties to adult models at home to different kinds of relationships with those peers and also, they reek adult models outside of their home, which I think is elementary and rather common knowledge. So, adult models outside of their home play really a key role in their transition to their own self-identity.

Q:What kind of models do you have in mind when you say that?

A:The favorite, of course, sports heroes. That is what one sees in teenage boys, for example, but they use, as adult models, those whom they come in contact with frequently -- coaches, teachers, scout masters, people who supervise their activities outside of the home.

Now, in my judgment in seeing teenagers over many years, teenagers, their main concerns -- particularly in the early adolescents and mid-adolescents on -- in reaching its peak at mid-adolescence -- is their bodily concern. They have a tremendous amount of bodily concern, and this is expressed in a whole variety of ways. Secondly, they have high concern over their psychosexual development.

THE COURT:Doctor, just let me interrupt you for a moment. You are talking about the adolescent, and so on, and is there a time framework in which you are referring?

THE WITNESS:Yes, if you are talking about adolescent girls, and you are talking rather generally about the ages between ten and eighteen for teenage girls. I am merely speaking now of a biological definition. Teenage boys begin their maturation about a year and a half later -- eleven and a half to twelve through age twenty. Most of the boys, by age fourteen – more than half or somewhere between half and three-quarters -- of the boys are well into their growth in sexual maturation.

THE COURT:So, when you are referring to the adolescent, you are referring to this time element as to age?

THE WITNESS:Yes, pubescence -- pubescence, which really initiates the whole adolescent process -- pubescence referring specifically to the endocrine and biological changes in the adolescent, the biological, psychological, intellectual changes in the adolescent.

Now, the bodily changes then trigger and force to the teenager’s attention and forces him to come to grips with his own psychosexual development, which, then, becomes, certainly from the early adolescence, occupying a reasonable amount of his time, depending on each individual’s particular own comfort with his own psychosexual development .

Now, for those youngsters whose orientation is very strongly heterosexual, this poses less of a problem than those boys --and I am speaking particularly of boys now -- than those boys who have more of a bisexual or latent or overt homosexual orientation. The middle and later group, the bisexual or homosexual teenage boys, are probably under much greater stress in handling their particular psychosexual development, and there is evidence in the literature which does suggest this .

For example, in a recent study that has been published a year ago from the University of Washington at Seattle and published in the “Journal of the American Medical Association,” they looked at some of the behavioral aspects of a group of bisexual or homosexual teenage boys from sixteen to twenty-two. One thing that they looked at was evidence of suicide, and one-third of this group had made -- in this particular study --a serious suicidal attempt .

I only cite this as evidence that for teenage boys in resolving this sexual identity, either in the bisexual or homosexual area, really involves a considerable degree of stress.

Now, then, returning to the particular issue at hand, that is, in the case at hand, which involves the eighth grade boys who are essentially in the fourteen-year old group, within the group of eighth grade boys who are age fourteen, one, you are going to have boys in that group who eventually axe going to be strongy heterosexual and an unknown number who will eventually be, as adults, homosexuals, and an intermediate group who will have varying amounts of bisexuality.

MR. BARON:May I interrupt you for one moment, Doctor?



Q:When you use the term, “bisexuality”, are you talking about anatomical ambiguity or are you talking about psychosexual ambiguity?

A:No, I am talking about normal, biological males, whose psychosexual orientation is uncertain.

Q:I just wanted to be clear on that. Thank you.

A:At least in my experience, boys deal in a variety of ways at a variety of times according, in essence, to their own individual time schedule, dictated by the peculiar circumstances in their life. I think what I am trying to say is that each boy has his own way of dealing with this, according to his own particular environment.

In the particular case at hand, the issue, as I see it, is that there are eighth grade boys who are -- probably most of them are in the age range or fourteen -- who are in a variety of stages of sexual maturation. At age fourteen, they are probably diverse in their sexual maturation and, therefore, potentially and probably in their psychological development and with a variety of orientations who are beginning to deal with this, and probably ought to be allowed to deal with it at their own speed, who, ii essence, are captives of the school system. That is, they have to go to school, by law, and are assigned to certain classes. In the present case, with the Plaintiff, at least in the current school year, it is public knowledge of the views that he takes about his personal life and that this, potentially, can adversely affect boys who are not ready to deal with this particular issue and, who, under ordinary circumstances, might not elect to deal with it later on.

Q:Are there any specific facts concerning Mr. Acanfora’s status that you rely upon in reaching that conclusion?

A:I think that in the case of most adults, their sexual life is private and that to me is the key issue. By his own volition, I guess, he has chosen this year, during this term in the Montgomery County school system, to make this a public issue, for reasons best known to himself.

Q:Are you referring to the fact of his homosexuality?

A:Yes. Since it is public knowledge, it is public knowledge for his students, and it is this part of it that I think creates some unrest in myself of whether this public knowledge might, in some youngsters, create undue hardship.

Q:Do you have any basis for perhaps estimating the number of teenagers who have this bisexual orientation?

A:There is really no information in the literature that I am aware of about teenagers,

THE COURT:Let me just interrupt a moment. You mean the number or the percentage or do you mean across-the-board, or what is it?

MR. BARON:Well, let’s talk in terms of percentages. I think that is probably more significant.

THE WITNESS:I think for someone having looked at teenagers, I don’t think that information is available, but I knew Dr. Kinsey in his research pointed out that in adult males -- by the methods he used to obtain the information -- there were a significant number of bisexual activities at some point in a man’s life.

So, this leaves unanswered the question of adolescence, but it must be true of some adolescents, since late adolescence is a period of fairly active sexual exploration and life.

MR. BARON:Witness with you.



Q:Dr. Heald, can you tell when you were first consulted by the Defendants or any representative of the Defendants with respect to this matter ?

A:I believe it was about two weeks ago, a week and a half, two weeks ago. I don’t recall the exact date.

Q:Were you present when Dr. Lourie testified this morning?

A:I was not.

Q:I would like to ask you whether you agree with certain things he said this morning. I will attempt to characterize them. I may not do so adequately, but, in any event, if you will indicate whether you agree with what I am sayings which may or may not accurately reflect what I understood Dr. Lourie to say.

One thing I understood him to say was that he personally, at least, had no qualms about homosexuals teaching at any level of the school system, provided that fact were not known to the students whom he was teaching. Do you agree with that?

A I would agree.

Q:He also said that he had no professional qualms about homosexuals teaching either in the elementary school or high school, even if the students did know they were homosexuals, because he said that those were not the critical periods at which this ambivalence or early or middle adolescence was in effect. I wonder if you agree with that?

A:I would be in agreement -- did you say elementary school?


A:I am less certain about high school.

Q:Why would you be less certain about high school?

A:Because of the role model issue.

Q:Well, we will get into the role model in a couple seconds.

Is the role model issue what you h-ave been describing in your answers to Mr. Baron’s questions thus far? I know you haven ’t referred to it specifically, but - -

A:No, I think I discussed it earlier, or thought I did.

Q:Okay. Now, another thing that Dr. Lourie said in his judgment that it was a very small percentage of the male students, even at what he regarded as the critical age, eleven to fourteen, as to whom there would be any danger in having a teacher, who was known to them to be a homosexual. Do you agree with that?

A:I missed your last word.


A:You mean, in essence, the youngsters at risk?

Q:Yes. Right, he said the youngsters at risk would be a very small, he said would be a very small percentage of the total student body between the ages of eleven to fourteen.

A:I would have to be very honest and say that we don’t really know, but probably it is not a large group.

Q:He also testified, if I understood him correctly, that one of the characteristics of that small number who were vulnerable., as he put it, were that they suffered from extreme emotional disturbances relating to this sexuality, independently to their exposure to this teacher, as I say, either came to the eighth grade or some time during the eighth grade, independently of that teacher, would have manifested extreme emotional, disturbances about this sexuality.

MR. BARON:Your Honor, I am going to object. I don’t think that is an accurate characterization of what Dr. Lourie said.

THE COURT:I think he did indicate, though, in any events those who had had any prior -- I think he indicated somebody seduced, and so forth, is that what you are referring to?


THE COURT:Because of such factors, either boys or girls may have, in effect, committed themselves prior to arriving to this age. Is that your question?

MR. GOTTESMAN:Yes, Your Honor.

As I understood it, those were examples that he gave of the types of children. He didn’t suggest that they were exclusive examples, but these were the type of children who arrived at this age group as vulnerable. He characterized the group, whatever the incident that led to it, the group of children who were extremely emotionally disturbed about their sexuality.

THE COURT:Because of their prior conditioning, or whatever you want to refer to it as?

MR. GOTTESMAN:That is correct.

THE COURT:I think that is a fair statement of it. There is some change. The question is, Doctors do you agree with that? In other words, what you are being asked to do, Doctor, is simply to agree or disagree with certain statements supposedly made by Dr. Lourie, and the danger is, of course, as far as counsel are concerned, these are being repeated to you as they were expressed originally, and there is obviously always going to be some change in the transitional area, I suppose.

That basically, was one or the comments that he did make.

THE WITNESS:I think that is a very important key issue and I would not really like to agree or disagree with that without having heard it in context from Dr. Lourie.


Q:Well, can you tell us your view as to the emotional, psychosexual condition, or whatever, of that group, which I think you have agreed is probably a small group, who would be vulnerable to some kind of harm by exposure to Mr. Acanfora.

In other words, how would they be identifiably different front the larger group who are not vulnerable?

A:Well, I thank Dr. Laurie is correct in that there are a small group of youngsters who can be identified as clearly homosexuals and obviously are troubled youngsters. What we don’t know is probably a group of youngsters with lesser -- who are bisexual -- or do not have either strong homosexual or heterosexual drives, who may function quite reasonably and yet still might be at risk. That information, I just don’t think is available. I think, theoretically, that situation does exists.

Q:So, theoretically, there may be some such children.

A:Not easily identified.

Q:So, then, we don’t know if there are any, and, if so, how many?

A:We know that there are some, because Kinsey’s data show it clearly.

Q:But do we know that there are enough so that we can be confident there are any in the Parkland Junior High School?

A:I would think on the law of probability, there would be.

Q:But it is true that there are certain]y not very many?

A:We don’t know that.

Q:Another thing that I understood Dr, Lourie to testify to was that there was no data, to his knowledge, indicating the impact of homosexual. teachers, known to be homosexuals, upon students of Junior high school age.

A:That is true, as far as I know.

Q:I also asked him whether he had ever had even a single case of a patient who had been adversely affected by exposure to a homosexual teacher, known to be a homosexual, and he replied that he had not; though, he could cite cases of people who had been exposed to other people who were homosexuals.

A:I wonder if you could cite a single case, either of your own or to your knowledge, of a student having been affected adversely by a homosexual teacher. I am talking now not about a teacher who is aggressive and would seduce a child, but simply by virtue of the fact of having a homosexual teacher, who is known to the child to be a homosexual, and who, in fact, did not do anything in the classroom but to teach that class the way anybody else would teach it?

A:In the absence of actual homosexual activities, is that what you are saying?

Q:That is correct?

A:I would agree with that statement.

Q:And you would agree that you know of no such instances?

A:I do not.

Q:Now, can you tell us in a little bit more detail, because it is not clear to me, I understood you to say that because there is this group, whatever its size, who are vulnerable, that you would have -- I think your words were -- some unrest about Mr. Acanfora being one of their teachers.

Did I understand your phraseology correctly?

A:I pose that as a possibility.

Q:It is. possible that there would be some unrest? Is that about the way you would like to characterize it~

A:I think it is quite probable.

Q:Well, now I am a little bit confused, because I thought the unrest was your unrest. That is to say, not that you knew of anything harmful would happen, but you had some unrest that something might?

A:One could not be precisely sure of unrest unless someone went to the classroom and measured it, or unless someone actually interviews with youngsters in the classroom.

Q:Well, then, I misunderstood. As I understand it now, you feel his presence might cause some unrest among some of his students?

A:That is what I intended to say.

Q:And I gather his students for which his presence might cause some unrest, are that small group -- and we are not sure of quite how small as you have previously described –

A:Or how large.,

Q:Or how large -- but the group of bisexual individuals and those who are committed to homosexuality?


Q:Can you tell us how that some unrest would manifest itself in these children and what is likely to result. Let me go back and ask it a different way, if I may. I will withdraw that. What is there about Mr. Acanfora’s presence in the classroom that is going to create that unrest?

A:I think under ordinary circumstances, probably it would be nothing, but the circumstances really are not ordinary in which he has, by his own volition, since filing, suit, elected to continue to have this as a public issue so that the captive boys in that classroom really have no alternative about avoiding the stimulant.

Q:Well, there are a few words in there that I would like to pin down a little bit.

A:What is your understanding of what the public issue is that he has raised?

A:It is my understanding that he has spoken out in public about the particular issue involved.

Q:Do you understand that he has advocated that homosexuality is a good way of life and everyone should become one?

A:I didn’t say that.

Q:Well, then, what are the public issues that you. undestand that he has spoken out on?

A:By the mere fact of speaking out in public about the issue, he has clearly identified himself as a homosexual in his private life. This is in sharp contrast to most other school teachers, the sexual lives of most other school teachers.

Where I am caught in this particular dilemma is that you have a captive population of boys who have no choice in handling the stimulus. That is because of the public knowledge. If it were not public knowledge, then I don’t think I would be here today. To me, that is the key feature.

Q:You say they have no choice about handling the stimulus. Can you tell us what the stimulus is?

A:The public knowledge.

Q:It is their knowledge that is important and because it is public, they have knowledge?

A:That is right.

Q:The fact that Mr. Acanfora is on TV is not what you are concerned about, but because he was on TV, the students know.

A:They would know.

Q:All right, now, assume certain facts with me, which I think are established by the record. Assume Mr. Acanfora teaches earth science, that all of his students come to him for fifty minutes a day, and no more, that all of his male students have at least two or three other male teachers whom they are taught by each day for at least an equal amount of time. In the case of their phys ed teacher, it is twice that length of time. Assume that approximately half of the teachers in the school are male teachers, that Mr. Acanfora has never spoken the subject of sexuality or his own personal views in the classroom, nor with any of his students outside the classroom, that Mr. Acanfora has not -- and I would gather you would agree, there is no reason to think that he would undertake any direct relationship with any of his students -- he, as a matter of ethics and morality, has chosen not to do that, and he has so spoken on that, that all the other male teachers in the school are teachers, who, if any of them are homosexuals, it is not a fact known to the students-- so, they are exposed to at least two or three other teachers whom I assume they expect are heterosexual.

Now, on that set of facts, how does the presence of these students in Mr. Acanfora’s class, learning earth science, fifty minutes a day, create a problem, and what precisely is the problem and what are the implications and consequences that are present in that classroom? What is going to happen to those students? We have identified there are only certain students, those who arc bisexual and homosexuals. What is going to happen to them by virtue of being in that classroom and why is the fact that they know Mr. Acanfora is a homosexual going to cause that?

A:Well, I don’t think it is the time that is the issues. In any kind of relationship or stimulus, it really is the quality, and fifteen minutes of some kind of highly intensive -- for example, and not in this context -- but in any generic context, fifteen minutes of a highly charged exposure can be equivalent to fifteen hours, for example, of some low-key exposure or minimal exposure; so, it is really the quality and the intensity and probably it is each, individual boy’s own particular personality which will, determine that, and some will not be involved at all and possibly others might be involved, might be made anxious, might be upset by it, might choose, if they had to choose, not to be in this particular situation because it is just uncomfortable for them, because they have not had the time or experience to clarify the issues in their own psychosexual orientation and development, which is a very difficult and key and frightening issue for teenagers. It really is.

That is part of my response. The other part of my response, I would have and I think most people who have looked at this case carefully in the literature would agree that there is really relatively little information about the reinforcing and conditioning experiences, the influences of them that these experiences have, during adolescence when adult character is finally being molded and settled, what effect it has on adult behavior and attitudes. This is just not known.

So, we can speculate on this and we can speculate on it on either side of the fence. The fact is, and the possibility remains, that this may be an important issue in adolescence. We have other examples of it outside of the sexual area in which psychological experiences play a key determinant in adult personality.

For example, if I might use another example, in juvenile obesity, teenage obesity, which frequently persists into adult life, if one looks at an adult who had childhood obesity and look at their body image, those who have poor body image would seriously impede their functioning as an adult or which may impede their serious function as adults -- a development that occurred not in childhood or adult life, but it developed specifically during adolescence. This is an example to show that the adolescent, at least in one behavioral concept, can be a key area where behavior can be significantly altered in an unfavorable way through adult life.

So, I am not saying this is true in the area we are discussing. I am only raising the issue that the possibility exists and remains as long as we don’t have good information about it.

Q:Now, I am not sure that I understood exactly what that possibility is.

I understand that you are saying that it may exist or it may not exist and there is no data to indicate one way or the other. Is that the possibility that Mr. Acanfora’s presence and the students knowing him to be a homosexual, may induce one or more students to become homosexuals who would not otherwise become homosexuals?

A:I am suggesting the possibility that it may in some way, influence them.

Q:May, in some way, influence them?

A:Their attitude and eventually their sexual behavior.

Q:And even that statement is one that you say there is no data, either to corroborate it or –

A:Either way for this captive population.

Q:Now, the other aspect which I gather you felt was at least a little more determinable was that some students would feel -- and your word was “uncomfortable” -- knowing Mr. Acanfora to be a homosexual, is that true?

A:If they -- yes -- meaning Specifically, anxiety.

MR. BARON:I am sorry, Doctor, I did not hear that.

THE WITNESS:Anxiety. That is what I mean by discomfort, specifically, anxiety.


Q:I assume that there must be all kinds of teachers who create anxiety in students for reasons other than being homosexuals, is that right?

A:I think that is quite true.

Q:And I assume your views would be the same if you went into a classroom and saw a heterosexual teacher who was, for example, a very strict disciplinarian, and the students were all squirming and looking frightened. You would have the same attitude about that as far as it concerns anxiety, would you not?

A:The anxiety -- the anxiety I am talking about has a specific meaning, and the specific meaning is that this particular youngster, to me, it is a warning that they are either uncomfortable with the issue and are not ready to deal with it. /

Q:Well, how does Mr. Acanfora force them to deal with it?

A:Public knowledge.

Q:They know he is a homosexual?

A:That is right.

Q:And, therefore, they have to deal with what -- with accepting that there is a homosexual who is seemingly an attractive person? I don’t mean attractive sexually, but in terms of being a role model?

A:That, theoretically, is possible -- probably more than theoretically.

Q:When you say “theoretically probably more,” do we know that that happens to adolescent boys?

A:We know that adolescent boys look to teachers as role models.

Q:Do they, necessarily, if they like the way he teaches, look to his entire life style, want his model car, and this sort of thing?

A:How can they separate it?

Q:I am sorry?

A:How can they separate it?

Q:Well, you are the expert. Is it impossible for them to separate Mr. Acanfora’s ability to speak out, to talk about geology, from his private sex life?

A:It might be difficult for fourteen-year-old boys.

Q:Incidentally, the testimony we have had up until now is that the normal age in this grade is thirteen, rather than fourteen. Does that affect anything you have testified to thus far?

A:Is the average age thirteen?

MR. BARON:The testimony has been that it is anywhere from thirteen to fifteen.

MR. GOTTESMAN:I think the testimony of both teachers is that most of the students were thirteen.

THE COUPT: I thought it was thirteen.

MR. BARON:One of the students who testified was thirteen -- one was fifteen and two were thirteen.

THE COURT:The ages were thirteen to fifteen.

THE WITNESS:I don’t think it changes anything materially.


Q:One of the other things that Dr. Lourie testified to, and I wonder if you would comment about this, and that was for some students the presence of a heterosexual teacher, or a particular heterosexual teacher may create, in your words, the anxiety. I think he used a different one, the sexual nature or psychosexual nature.

Would you agree with that? I gave him the specific example that led to his acknowledging that,, and that was the adolescent girl who has a crush on her handsome male teacher and she feels rebuffed because he doesn’t respond in kind and that leads to pressure and it may lead to worse. He said, yes, he assumed there were such cases.

That kind of heterosexual anxiety can likewise be created in the classroom setup, is that correct?

A:I would think that is theoretically possible.

Q:Now, is this theoretically possible in the same way that the other is -- that is to say, you are fairly confident that these things do happen?

A:I am sure it happens.

Q:Now, are there students whose fate is already determined by the time they reach junior high school and who unquestionably would be homosexuals, regardless of what stimuli and models are provided in the high school?

A:I think that is quite clear.

Q:Indeed, would you agree with Dr. Money that the vast majority of those who would in fact be homosexuals -- I think he would say all -- I would ask you if at least the vast majority would have their homosexuality determined and committed long before they reach adolescence?


Q:As to those persons, would you agree with Dr. Money and he hasn’t testified yet, but he will -- and I warrant that he will testify to this effect that the presence of an attractive role model is psychologically healthy and society’s failure to provide one actually creates severe emotional disturbances and serious anxieties in those students.

A:Well, my answer to that would have to be that they find their own, that society, by the nature of society, does provide role models for them and would also note that they, in the case that you have indicated at least, have free choice in choosing the role models,

Q:We are talking now about the committedly homosexual adolescent.

A:That is correct.

Q:You say they have free choice in choosing role models?


Q:And who would those role models be?

A:Each individual, by his own nature and own personal taste, will choose his own role model.

Q:Well, assuming that his personal nature and taste is for a homosexual role model, since that is what he is and committedly and clearly going to be –

A:Then, he will find his role model.

Q:Where will he find them?

A:Wherever he finds homosexual role models who will suit his particular taste.

Q:Are you talking about people with whom he will have an actual direct relationship, sexually?

A:No, I am not particularly saying that.

Q:Well, does society offer homosexual role models for these people to find?


Q:Are they offered on television?


Q:I am sorry, I did not hear you.

A:No, they would have to seek them out in their everyday life.

Q:Well, there are, in fact, in the last few, years, at least, a fairly extensive number of homosexuals who do appear on television and identify themselves as such, are there not, talk programs, and that sort of thing?

A:I don’t watch talk programs.

Q:I am sorry.

A:I don’t watch talk prograrns.

Q:You have never seen any discussion or coverage on the subject of homosexuality on television, in which a least one acknowledged homosexual participates.

A:I probably have, but I cannot remember clearly.

Q:And you have never seen any drama or any fictitious representation on television on t he subject of homosexuality?

A:I frankly cannot remember.

Q:Now, as to these committedly homosexual students --and I would assume that Kinsey’s figures would suggest that there is a relatively substantial number of these -- is that correct, percentage-wise?

A:Committed homosexual adults?

Q:Adolescents -- whose fate is to become a homosexual and is clearly determined by adolescence.

A:No, I don’t think there are a substantial number. They are certainly a minority group. At least the data on the prevalence of adult homosexuality indicates that it is not the majority.

Q:It is not the majority?


Q:But it would be a substantial percentage less than the majority, would it not?

A:No. You are talking about practicing homosexuals?

Q:Persons whose sexual identification, gender identification, is such that by the time they reach adolescence, they are clearly homosexually oriented in a manner that is not going to change?

A:This is probably very small, if I understand the literature very correctly.

Q:And the percentage whose fate hangs in the balance, is that a very small percentage?

A:This, I think I indicated earlier, by Kinsey’s data, is a significant group -- by the data that he has gotten in surveying adults. The number in adolescents is not known.

Q; I am sorry.

A:The numbers in adolescents are not known. So, one would only have to extrapolate that.

Q:Concentrating again, for a moment, on those who are clearly fated to be homosexuals and whether they suffer front the deprivation of a role model, such as Mr. Acanfora. You said you saw no problem and that they could seek out role models of their own.

I would like to ask if it is not a fact that society by constantly imposing on them only the other rote models, only heterosexual males, or males who are assumed to be heterosexual, is not doing to them precisely the reverse of what you have described on your direct testimony, which was imposing on a captive audience persons who create problems for them.

A:There is a difference between the two situations and I think the difference, is that most of the time the sexual life of any given teacher, in general, is not known to students. That is the difference.

Q:And is it your understanding that the student’s state of mind as to most teachers is that he may be heterosexual or he may be homosexual. I don’t know which, is that correct?

A:My guess is they don’t think about it very much, under ordinary circumstances.

Q:Now, the class of students whom you said would feel uncomfortable with Mr. Acanfora is which -- just the bisexuals?

A:That would be the group that I would be more concerned about.

Q:Those who are heterosexual or homosexual, whatever their other problems may be, are not likely to be discomforted by Mr. Acanfora’s presence?

A:As much.

THE COURT:Anything else, Mr. Gottesman?

MR. GOTTESMAN:If I might have just a moment, Your Honor.


Q:Dr. Heald, you said that adolenscents are unable to separate out the separate components of the personality of their role model, and if they are strongly attracted to someone, they are likely to be attracted to the whole picture, is that correct?

A:Generally, yes.

Q:I realize that this is a somewhat different example, but I wonder if you would comment on it.

A:The Surgeon General tells us that smoking is dangerous to our health. Is it likely that a child who is strongly attracted to a particular teacher as a role model, whether it be male or female, heterosexual or homosexual, who smokes, is, by that, going to be more apt to wind up a smoker than if the role model is not a smoker?

MR. BARON:Objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT:I. think the Court can take judicial notice of that, I think that could well happen,

MR. GOTTESMAN:Well, your Honor. I guess the question it opens is whether given all the other outside stimuli whether this one is likely to tip the balance and determine whether a child will smoke or not, assuming that, then that teacher is going to be dangerous to the health of his children.

THE COURT:I am not at all sure that children are concerned about the danger of it when they begin smoking.

MR. GOTTESMAN:I am sorry, Your Honor?

THE COURT:I am not at all sure that children are concerned about the danger aspect of it when they begin smoking. They do what their peers do, I suppose.


Q:Dr. Heald, is it your judgment that the students who are uncomfortable -- if that is the right word -- are aware of what is making them uncomfortable in the situation you have described, the bisexual students?

A:I would think that would be very much an individual matter.

Q:If I understand you correctly, it is a phenomenon as to which we have no data, either as to number of students who are vulnerable or as to whether or not in fact the discomfort sets in, is that correct?

A:In this particular classroom or in general?

Q:In general .

A:I think it is quite clear that one does see in adolescent children -- we see young teenagers who come in with a variety of complaints, psychosomatic complaints, depressions, whose basis is sexual.

Q:I understood you to say earlier that you knew not of a single case, either of your own or in any of the literature, of a student whose subsequent complaints, whatever they might be, were attributed, even in part, to exposure to a homosexual teacher, known by him to be a homosexual, is that correct?

A:That is quite correct.

MR GOTTESMAN:That is all we have, Your Honor.



Q:Dr. Heald, are you familiar with any learning in the literature which creates a correlation between the early onset of puberty and homosexuality in any adolescents?

A:There is one citation in the literature which suggests that early onset of pubescence is associated, I believe, with a higher prevalence of homosexual activity.

Q:Does the phrase “homosexual panic” mean anything to you.?

A:Yes, it does.

Q:Could you tell me what that means?

A:Homosexual panics are usually youngsters who come in to see physicians, and I have seen such youngsters who are extreme examples of acute anxiety. They are highly nervous. They can hardly sit still. They may even have trouble talking initially when you see them. They are usually youngsters in their mid-fourteen, fifteen, sixteen and seventeen period. They frequently are suicidal or have suicidal thoughts. If one is experienced with adolescents and watches out for it, one very quickly finds out they have just recently had a homosexual experience. It is a well known clinical syndrome among physicians who see large numbers of teenagers.

THE COURT:Anything else, Mr. Baron?

MR. BARON:Nothing further, Your Honor.

THE COURT:Mr. Gottesman?

MR. GOTTESMAN:Just one question.



Q:Dr. Hea1d, you referred to one citation in literature between the correlation of the early onset of pubescence and the prevalence of homosexual activities.

Is that a view that you hold that there is such a correlation?

A:I will be very frank about it. I only cite it as evidence in the literature. I have no personal judgment as to the validity of it.

MR. GOTTESMAN:That is all I have.

THE COURT:Thank you, Dr. Heald. You may be excused.

[Witness excused]

20.10.2006 0:22